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	<title>Comments on: Diagnostic Report</title>
	<link>http://mitchmcg.blogsome.com/2007/07/10/diagnostic-report/</link>
	<description>Instincts are misleading: You shouldn't think what you're feeling.</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 08:23:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: jeff</title>
		<link>http://mitchmcg.blogsome.com/2007/07/10/diagnostic-report/#comment-106</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jul 2007 21:22:34 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://mitchmcg.blogsome.com/2007/07/10/diagnostic-report/#comment-106</guid>
					<description>I don't think your defensive.

I question the ability to prove success in the ways the CBS program believes it will do. If anything, a program like that should be sensitive to how it is not addressing a variety of other factors that play into learning, particularly when one is speaking about so called &quot;at risk&quot; students. Alas, it's not. To get all ANT here for a moment, that may partly have to do with the pedagogical background its leadership has. And that point, too, asks for a more complex breakdown.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I don&#8217;t think your defensive.</p>
	<p>I question the ability to prove success in the ways the CBS program believes it will do. If anything, a program like that should be sensitive to how it is not addressing a variety of other factors that play into learning, particularly when one is speaking about so called &#8220;at risk&#8221; students. Alas, it&#8217;s not. To get all ANT here for a moment, that may partly have to do with the pedagogical background its leadership has. And that point, too, asks for a more complex breakdown.
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		<title>by: Administrator</title>
		<link>http://mitchmcg.blogsome.com/2007/07/10/diagnostic-report/#comment-104</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jul 2007 18:11:56 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://mitchmcg.blogsome.com/2007/07/10/diagnostic-report/#comment-104</guid>
					<description>I see the point you're making, and in part I agree.  The diagnostic was not my idea, per se, but was strongly encouraged and advocated by the CBS/SEP.  This is not to pawn responsibility off on CBS; rather, I find myself (as I noted in the previous post) trying to accomodate both my pedagogical interests and CBS' desire to collect data (a word I find problematic when applied to writing) in order to show that the SEP produces results (also problematic) in order to get increased funding in future years and thus to help their overall program of assisting Latino, Chicano, &amp;amp; Boricua students succeed in the academic environment.  So, in that way, I acknowledge that there is a highly politicized motive behind both the diagnostic and the aims of the SEP as a whole.

I may have the opportunity to work with these students beyond 1010 and pick them up (or many of them up) as 1020 in Winter 08. . .I'm hoping that maybe I can use 1010 to lay some foundations for a 1020 course that (like my current one) can address non-linearity, appropriation etc.

And as a final note--I hope you don't think my tone above sounds defensive.  I think I understand the point you're making about the danger of a defective practice, but I think CBS' goal is a noble one and--to a certain extent--wonder whether a course like my current 1020 wouldn't make their task more difficult.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I see the point you&#8217;re making, and in part I agree.  The diagnostic was not my idea, per se, but was strongly encouraged and advocated by the CBS/SEP.  This is not to pawn responsibility off on CBS; rather, I find myself (as I noted in the previous post) trying to accomodate both my pedagogical interests and CBS&#8217; desire to collect data (a word I find problematic when applied to writing) in order to show that the SEP produces results (also problematic) in order to get increased funding in future years and thus to help their overall program of assisting Latino, Chicano, &amp; Boricua students succeed in the academic environment.  So, in that way, I acknowledge that there is a highly politicized motive behind both the diagnostic and the aims of the SEP as a whole.</p>
	<p>I may have the opportunity to work with these students beyond 1010 and pick them up (or many of them up) as 1020 in Winter 08. . .I&#8217;m hoping that maybe I can use 1010 to lay some foundations for a 1020 course that (like my current one) can address non-linearity, appropriation etc.</p>
	<p>And as a final note&#8211;I hope you don&#8217;t think my tone above sounds defensive.  I think I understand the point you&#8217;re making about the danger of a defective practice, but I think CBS&#8217; goal is a noble one and&#8211;to a certain extent&#8211;wonder whether a course like my current 1020 wouldn&#8217;t make their task more difficult.
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		<title>by: jeff</title>
		<link>http://mitchmcg.blogsome.com/2007/07/10/diagnostic-report/#comment-102</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:17:38 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://mitchmcg.blogsome.com/2007/07/10/diagnostic-report/#comment-102</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;While I am confident that all of our students responded to the best of their ability, the scene of writing here is neither organic nor optimal, so students who produced work of less-evident sophistication cannot and should not be dismissed as incompetent writers; given a longer period of time to draft, revise, and edit the same prompt, we can safely assume that all of the diagnostic essays would show marked improvement.&lt;/i&gt;

Of course, this is the issue, no? At what point does even this realization - diagnostics and placement exams are too artificial to use - allow us to shift pedagogical emphasis? While your observations are helpful to the work you are doing, another position is to wonder if time could be put to more useful practices. Given that neither a diagnostic (as you note) nor a placement exam actually trace how someone writes, why the commitment to them? The answer typically given is that they allow us room to understand what to teach (ah! x amount of students did y; I need to teach y). But if we just recognized that these things don't measure accurately, how are they helping us teach?

One might then realize that a program like the one you are teaching in or any other that is committed to the diagnostic or placement exam is actually re-enforcing problematic practices. Students who are repeatedly exposed to a problematic practice believe that it is &lt;i&gt;the&lt;/i&gt; practice. This is how ideology works. Replace diagnostic with a racist, sexist, consumerist, nationalist and so on practice and you have the same thing. Repetitive exposure convinces us of a &lt;i&gt;way to do&lt;/i&gt; something.

The observation, then, that a textbook like &lt;i&gt;Textbook&lt;/i&gt; was confusing to &quot;basic&quot; writers makes sense. If I am exposed to schooling practices that tell me non-linearity writing, appropriative strategies, fragments, mystorys, etc are &lt;i&gt;wrong&lt;/i&gt;, why would the book make any sense? I've been interpellated already by diagnostics (which must be simple in form in order to work in 45 minutes) and other similar devices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>While I am confident that all of our students responded to the best of their ability, the scene of writing here is neither organic nor optimal, so students who produced work of less-evident sophistication cannot and should not be dismissed as incompetent writers; given a longer period of time to draft, revise, and edit the same prompt, we can safely assume that all of the diagnostic essays would show marked improvement.</i></p>
	<p>Of course, this is the issue, no? At what point does even this realization - diagnostics and placement exams are too artificial to use - allow us to shift pedagogical emphasis? While your observations are helpful to the work you are doing, another position is to wonder if time could be put to more useful practices. Given that neither a diagnostic (as you note) nor a placement exam actually trace how someone writes, why the commitment to them? The answer typically given is that they allow us room to understand what to teach (ah! x amount of students did y; I need to teach y). But if we just recognized that these things don&#8217;t measure accurately, how are they helping us teach?</p>
	<p>One might then realize that a program like the one you are teaching in or any other that is committed to the diagnostic or placement exam is actually re-enforcing problematic practices. Students who are repeatedly exposed to a problematic practice believe that it is <i>the</i> practice. This is how ideology works. Replace diagnostic with a racist, sexist, consumerist, nationalist and so on practice and you have the same thing. Repetitive exposure convinces us of a <i>way to do</i> something.</p>
	<p>The observation, then, that a textbook like <i>Textbook</i> was confusing to &#8220;basic&#8221; writers makes sense. If I am exposed to schooling practices that tell me non-linearity writing, appropriative strategies, fragments, mystorys, etc are <i>wrong</i>, why would the book make any sense? I&#8217;ve been interpellated already by diagnostics (which must be simple in form in order to work in 45 minutes) and other similar devices.
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